Tales of alcohol- and drug-fueled-debauchery are as common in music as playing guitar, whether it be onstage antics (Jim Morrison, Ozzy), the trashing of a hotel room (Rolling Stones, Rick James, Sid Vicious, countless others), or a “lost weekend” in the case of John Lennon. Many of these real-life experiences end tragically, but when the musician survives and finds sobriety, the war stories don’t go away. In fact, there’s wisdom in leaning in to their retelling.
Enter David Manheim, host of the Dopey podcast which has become essential listening for those in the recovery community. Twice a week, Manheim provides vital insights and comic relief from guests recounting their darkest addiction moments. Most are people with no claim to fame, and those are often the most interesting guests, though Dopey has featured a range of music names and notable personalities from the entertainment world. Among them: Motley Crue manager Doc Mcghee, Faith No More’s Roddy Bottum, guitarist Steve Stevens, radio host Matt Pinfield and comedians like Artie Lange and Hank Azaria, the latter of whom will appear at Saturday’s DopeyCon, celebrating the pod’s 10th anniversary, to be held at the Church of the Holy Apostle in New York City’s Chelsea neighborhood (tickets are still available for purchase).
Manheim speaks music fluently, having grown up in New York immersed in the ska scene of the 1990s. And his hosting skills were also honed in the area, working for Broadway Video, Lorne Michaels’ media company, which allowed him to interview artists like the Flaming Lips, Ween, Beanie Man, KRS-1, and Bob Weir on camera. “I did a show high on heroin mostly,” says Manheim matter-of-factly. A stint at MTV2 followed before the bottom fell out and rehab beckoned. It was there that he met Chris O’Connor and they dreamed up Dopey. Sadly, his cohost died of an overdose in July 2018. The Dopey community has memorialized him with the sign-off “Toodles for Chris.”
Manheim, who splits his time working at Katz’s Deli as a social media director, has now been clean for 10 years. He spoke to Rolling Stone about the ties that bind addicts and listeners.
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What’s your connection to music?
I wanted to be a musician. I started playing in bands in New York, and then I went to college and became a total stoner almost immediately. And as soon as that happened, the cross-pollination of smoking weed every day, playing music, and reading about musicians, it led me to the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, which led me to Kerouac, which led me to Burroughs, and all of the drugs that follow.
Do you see a connection between the glamorization of drug experiences that you read about in books and actually getting into using?
I do. In my life, I grew up in Manhattan, but I started doing drugs in upstate New York. I got kicked out of college and wound up at SUNY Purchase, which was an art school, and somebody came through with heroin. And I did it there.
A ‘Dopey’-inspired tattoo
Courtesy of the Dopey Podcast Archives
How did you end up with a job on television?
I didn’t play [music] anymore and I started doing drugs and then I wound up working at Broadway Video which had a subsidiary called Burly Bear, and I made a music show there. … We did weird bits where, this is when TRL was starting to be big, we’d go down to MTV and I would wear a Spider-Man mask and my friend wore a Halloween Jason mask and we protested with signs that said “MTV is the tool of the devil.” I was high for all of it and wound up not being able to keep up with the drug habit, and with the rent. I got fired for breach of contract because I went to detox, and didn’t tell my employer. Then I got one last TV job at MTV2 producing a show called Handpicked Volume 2, which was like the breakout show for Coldplay and John Mayer and Jason Schwartzman was the host, and I was totally fucked up on heroin.
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Have you found a common thread with all of the musicians you’ve interviewed as it relates to addiction?
Everybody has a different story, and not everybody has the same view towards sobriety or even recovery. Ivan Neville has been on a few times and always talks being abstinent. And DMC is sober a long time, but he didn’t work a recovery program at all. So it’s the path of consequences and then making some kind of measured change. But the change isn’t always the same.
I’m sure this has come up a lot with musicians: Were you a better songwriter when you were fucked up than when you were sober?
Absolutely. It’s an interesting question because everybody says, “I’m just as creative sober as I was on drugs.” But then you go back and you look at the records and were the sober records ever as good as the high records? I don’t know.
Listeners compare your interviewing skills to Howard Stern…
I actually lied my way onto the Howard Stern Show. It was Sept. 22, 1999. I wanted to be famous. And I wanted my Broadway Video show, called Shuffle, to be popular. And I was such a Stern fan. I figured Howard would put me on if I brought in my hot girlfriend to get naked or I took off all my clothes and wore, like, a sandwich board on 34th Street saying Howard is the greatest. Or I could appeal to his ego and come up with a lie, which I did. I invented an award — the Shuffle Entertainer of the Millennium Award — and I said that Howard beat out Jay Leno and Adam Sandler in our audience vote. So he invited me to come give him the award. And the night before, I did all sorts of drugs — heroin and coke and ecstasy — and I walked up to K-Rock from my apartment at five in the morning and I gave him the award. And he believed it. He thanked his agent and he thanked Robin. And then Robin looks at me and she goes, “He’s high.” And then he kicked me out. But it was still amazing. I have the recording of it. Now I want to make amends for lying to them — to go over there with pastrami sandwiches from Katz’s.
And you’ve have Artie Lang on Dopey, too?
My friend Chris, who died while we made the show, he and I went out to Hoboken to interview Artie, and the two of them were high. I was the only sober person and that was the last time I saw Chris alive.
Chris O’Connor, Manheim’s former podcasting partner, died in 2018.
Courtesy of the Dopey Podcast Archives
The tragic story of Chris was told in great detail on another podcast, This American Life. When do you find yourself thinking of him?
Every day at some point because I’m so obsessed with making the show. And every episode, I end with saying “Toodles for Chris.” Also twice a year, we do Chris shows — tributes on his birthday and on the week that he died.
What did you bond over in rehab?
Everything, but it’s the same reason that the show worked so well, which was we both came from these good families, and it was very obvious that we knew everything that we had done and why it was wrong. Like we could see it in our parents’ eyes. So when we talked about our lives, it would be as these ridiculous drug addicts that were raised by these totally morally upright, educated people. So I think that was like the deepest connection. And then just like we had a way of making each other laugh. He was incredibly smart and he made me laugh a lot, too.
Where do you land on cannabis and its place in recovery as an exit-drug?
I love cannabis. I just can’t smoke it because I’m too much of a drug addict. But I don’t I don’t have an issue with people smoking weed. It’s an amazing detox drug. And I wouldn’t suggest anybody get off heroin without weed, unless weed is not good for them — because there’s a bunch of people that get very paranoid when they smoke pot. But I never could have gotten off heroin without cannabis. Heroin addiction is soul sucking. And when you finally get off of it, you’re really sick for a while and something like bud can make you feel better in the short term. I don’t think cannabis in the long-term is great for alcoholics and drug addicts in recovery unless they can’t work out abstinence. I love being abstinent.
What’s the genesis of DopeyCon?
It was an idea that me and Chris had a million years ago, and then we never did it. And after he died, I wanted to do it almost for Chris. The fans put together a Dopey Nation fan page on Facebook because they wanted to grieve Chris together. Then during Covid, they started doing Dopey Nation Zooms every week. And now they do 25 Zooms a week that have nothing to do with me. And we’ve sent like 50 people to rehab, and there’s like 50 people with Dopey tattoos. I’m proud of all those things. We’ve been doing DopeyCon at the Church of the Holy Apostle, which is the oldest and biggest soup kitchen in the city. It’s a beautiful place. This is the fourth year and we always get interesting people to participate and people travel from all over the world to come. It’s pretty cool.
How do you book your guests?
We try to get contributions from the audience as much as possible — whether it’s music or art or friends of friends — and then you have sober influencers. I need two guests a week so I’m constantly looking and reaching out.
David Manheim and Chris O’Connor met during recovery and started ‘Dopey.’
Courtesy of the Dopey Podcast Archives
Who’s on your wish list for future guests on the Dopey podcast?
Steve Jones. Flavor Flav. Charlie Sheen. Robert Downey Jr. Courtney Love. Keith Richards, obviously. Pete Townsend. Trey Anastasio. Billy Strings. Paul Simon, so he can talk about the crazy ayahuasca journey he took in his forties that changed his perspective. My number one dream guest is Bob Dylan.
Who is a good ambassador for sobriety?
Marc Maron is great because he’s so human and doesn’t act like he’s holier than thou or sanctimonious. He acknowledges what recovery did for him and that he’s still a person who’s capable of a myriad of emotions. Margaret Cho is an amazing ambassador for sobriety. Jamie Lee Curtis, Robert Downey Jr…. they’ve been through the mill. Even Charlie Sheen at this point is an incredible ambassador for recovery.
How so?
His stories are just so out there and detailed. He takes so much pleasure in the insanity and debauchery. He also acknowledges how totally out of his mind he was in the “winning,” Tiger Blood period. And you get a feeling of deep humility and gratitude [in the new Netflix documentary, aka Charlie Sheen]. And maybe he’s just acting, but I feel like you look at him, he’s been through it and he knows what happened. And I get this feeling that he’s changed. He’s the ultimate Dopey guest, right?
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That’s like the Dopey ethos: to share stories that are so insane and horrific, but they’re told in such a way that makes them less scary.
I think when people close the door on their drug stories or war stories or whatever you want to call them it’s because they feel shame around it, or they’re afraid that it’s going to give somebody the wrong idea. I know for me, when we started the show, the stories Chris and I told each other were so crazy, but they were also super entertaining and they bonded us. And then instantly there was an audience who bonded to it too. It’s about the general joy of telling a good story that’s funny. It’s about having survived. And it’s also like, we’re not the only people this happened to. That’s really powerful because it’s the only place you’re going to hear this kind of a story.
Does it connect to the Alcoholics Anonymous model of speaking in front of a group of fellow addicts?
I don’t think so. AA saved my life 100 percent, but there’s a little twist. AA is all about trying to apply spiritual principles to your day-to-day. We always said that Dopey was like the meeting after the meeting, or the meeting before the meeting, where you can laugh and actually make friends.
